From agrimes at speakeasy.net Thu Mar 26 09:59:03 2009 From: agrimes at speakeasy.net (Alan Grimes) Date: Thu Mar 26 11:00:04 2009 Subject: [As-users] =(((( Message-ID: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> I'm sorry but I'm so outraged by how awful this software is I am absolutely compelled to join this mailing list to explain why this is one of the worst window managers I've ever attempted to use. I spent most of my life in a custom shell on Windows 3.11 (Dashboard from Starfish Software). Then I moved more or less directly to FVWM on linux which I used for years on end... Then its "bit-rot" became overwhelming so I switched to KDE3, which was pretty good. KDE4.2 was utterly unusable so I went searching for a WM again. (KDE4 is the worst downgrade in the history of open source!) I used Enlightenment for about a month. It was half-way decent but then I noticed that it was eating half of my CPU power, which is outrageous!!! So I loaded afterstep. (I had a brief encounter with gnustep back around 2003 which was generally positive.) In attempting to use afterstep I've had some of the most frustrating experiences I've ever had attempting to use a GUI, it's almost half as awful as vi which is the benchmark as the world's least usable program. It seems to follow completely arbitrary rules, some windows I can make overlap, others I can't. The desktop manager is completely broken because the window I want to move moves in a different direction than the mouse. I have an instance of "Okular" that simply cannot be moved, the system beeps when I try to move it. (My desktop has a CRT and a flatpannel, dissimilar resolutions on a nvidia driver, it's a version out of date because nvidia doesn't support my card anymore!!!). I have TWM on this monitor because it is more or less usable, while afterstep, on my other monitor, is not. Sometimes I'll have a deeply burried window but no matter how many times I click on it, I cannot get it to raise to the top. When I try to pop a terminal which I do hundreds of times an hour, it will flash for an instant and then disappear, I have to then go hunting for it, which is insane!!! Because I can't find a usable window manager, I probably won't be able to use linux for much longer. The last time I installed an OS on this machine was in 2004... -- New president: Here we go again... Chemistry.com: A total rip-off. Powers are not rights. From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Thu Mar 26 11:15:51 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Thu Mar 26 11:16:13 2009 Subject: [As-users] =(((( In-Reply-To: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> References: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <200903261115.51366.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> AfterStep is highly configurable and takes time to set up the way you want it. It sounds like the defaults are not to your liking. I suggest either trying another window manager, or spending the time learning how to configure AfterStep to work they way you want it to. Either way, flaming the list is not appropriate. If you want to give AfterStep a serious try and some aspect of it is not working, it is OK to ask a question explaining what didn't appear to work, and what your expectation was. In most cases, a configuration change will make AfterStep behave according to your expectations. On 2009-03-26 at 09:59:03, Alan Grimes wrote: >I'm sorry but I'm so outraged by how awful this software is I am >absolutely compelled to join this mailing list to explain why this is >one of the worst window managers I've ever attempted to use. > >I spent most of my life in a custom shell on Windows 3.11 (Dashboard >from Starfish Software). > >Then I moved more or less directly to FVWM on linux which I used for >years on end... Then its "bit-rot" became overwhelming so I switched > to KDE3, which was pretty good. > >KDE4.2 was utterly unusable so I went searching for a WM again. (KDE4 > is the worst downgrade in the history of open source!) > >I used Enlightenment for about a month. It was half-way decent but > then I noticed that it was eating half of my CPU power, which is > outrageous!!! > >So I loaded afterstep. (I had a brief encounter with gnustep back > around 2003 which was generally positive.) > >In attempting to use afterstep I've had some of the most frustrating >experiences I've ever had attempting to use a GUI, it's almost half as >awful as vi which is the benchmark as the world's least usable > program. > >It seems to follow completely arbitrary rules, some windows I can make >overlap, others I can't. The desktop manager is completely broken >because the window I want to move moves in a different direction than >the mouse. I have an instance of "Okular" that simply cannot be moved, >the system beeps when I try to move it. (My desktop has a CRT and a >flatpannel, dissimilar resolutions on a nvidia driver, it's a version >out of date because nvidia doesn't support my card anymore!!!). I have >TWM on this monitor because it is more or less usable, while > afterstep, on my other monitor, is not. > >Sometimes I'll have a deeply burried window but no matter how many > times I click on it, I cannot get it to raise to the top. > >When I try to pop a terminal which I do hundreds of times an hour, it >will flash for an instant and then disappear, I have to then go > hunting for it, which is insane!!! > >Because I can't find a usable window manager, I probably won't be able >to use linux for much longer. The last time I installed an OS on this >machine was in 2004... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From as_ml at vaevictus.net Thu Mar 26 12:05:50 2009 From: as_ml at vaevictus.net (Nathan 'Vaevictus' Mahon) Date: Thu Mar 26 12:10:25 2009 Subject: [As-users] =(((( In-Reply-To: <200903261115.51366.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> <200903261115.51366.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <49CBB5EE.1090205@vaevictus.net> Well put. But if alan thinks that vi is the "least usable program", I'd suggest he's simply incompatible with AfterStep. Alan, you may want to try fluxbox or xfce. Alternatively, you might want to try learning what's going on and why. The "arbitrary rules" have a distinct placement in the database file. That is customizable. Everything is. All of your "bugs" are completely intentional, and related to desired behaviors in relationship to the Wharfs and other WM related display areas. n8 Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > AfterStep is highly configurable and takes time to set up the way you > want it. It sounds like the defaults are not to your liking. I suggest > either trying another window manager, or spending the time learning how > to configure AfterStep to work they way you want it to. Either way, > flaming the list is not appropriate. If you want to give AfterStep a > serious try and some aspect of it is not working, it is OK to ask a > question explaining what didn't appear to work, and what your > expectation was. In most cases, a configuration change will make > AfterStep behave according to your expectations. > > > On 2009-03-26 at 09:59:03, Alan Grimes wrote: > >> I'm sorry but I'm so outraged by how awful this software is I am >> absolutely compelled to join this mailing list to explain why this is >> one of the worst window managers I've ever attempted to use. >> >> I spent most of my life in a custom shell on Windows 3.11 (Dashboard >> > >from Starfish Software). > >> Then I moved more or less directly to FVWM on linux which I used for >> years on end... Then its "bit-rot" became overwhelming so I switched >> to KDE3, which was pretty good. >> >> KDE4.2 was utterly unusable so I went searching for a WM again. (KDE4 >> is the worst downgrade in the history of open source!) >> >> I used Enlightenment for about a month. It was half-way decent but >> then I noticed that it was eating half of my CPU power, which is >> outrageous!!! >> >> So I loaded afterstep. (I had a brief encounter with gnustep back >> around 2003 which was generally positive.) >> >> In attempting to use afterstep I've had some of the most frustrating >> experiences I've ever had attempting to use a GUI, it's almost half as >> awful as vi which is the benchmark as the world's least usable >> program. >> >> It seems to follow completely arbitrary rules, some windows I can make >> overlap, others I can't. The desktop manager is completely broken >> because the window I want to move moves in a different direction than >> the mouse. I have an instance of "Okular" that simply cannot be moved, >> the system beeps when I try to move it. (My desktop has a CRT and a >> flatpannel, dissimilar resolutions on a nvidia driver, it's a version >> out of date because nvidia doesn't support my card anymore!!!). I have >> TWM on this monitor because it is more or less usable, while >> afterstep, on my other monitor, is not. >> >> Sometimes I'll have a deeply burried window but no matter how many >> times I click on it, I cannot get it to raise to the top. >> >> When I try to pop a terminal which I do hundreds of times an hour, it >> will flash for an instant and then disappear, I have to then go >> hunting for it, which is insane!!! >> >> Because I can't find a usable window manager, I probably won't be able >> to use linux for much longer. The last time I installed an OS on this >> machine was in 2004... >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University > Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave > +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA > _______________________________________________ > As-users mailing list > As-users@afterstep.org > http://mail.afterstep.org/mailman/listinfo/as-users > From niklas at fet.at Thu Mar 26 13:08:25 2009 From: niklas at fet.at (niklas@fet.at) Date: Thu Mar 26 13:08:44 2009 Subject: [As-users] =(((( In-Reply-To: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> References: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <43404.128.131.95.216.1238090905.squirrel@www.fet.at> Not that i want to join flamewars, but this one is tough not to join... so here it goes : a) this is free software. people did this in their spare time (in the last years the amount of active people was rather limited), so if you like it - fine, if not fine too. at least be respectfull (see nettiquette). So the error in your assumption is that it was designed so _you_ can use it. b) have you at least read documentation/website??? tried to find answers to your problems there? i guess not... c) if you find a bug and want it fixed, get your act together and start with _constructive_ criticism, file bugs, or better write a patch... just ranting "it does not work" will not help you, and just wastes your and _our_ time. d) stop wasting our time, and either help out, or just go away and move on to something else. my impression is that your social skills are seriously underdevelopped, even compared to someone like me. greatings Niklas L. From albert at tigr.net Thu Mar 26 15:55:21 2009 From: albert at tigr.net (Albert Dorofeev) Date: Thu Mar 26 15:57:33 2009 Subject: [As-users] =(((( In-Reply-To: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> References: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <20090326205521.GA2025@tigr.net> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:59:03AM -0400, Alan Grimes wrote: > In attempting to use afterstep I've had some of the most frustrating > experiences I've ever had attempting to use a GUI, it's almost half as > awful as vi which is the benchmark as the world's least usable program. You are exactly right. AfterStep is the vi of window managers. We all here like vi and we like AfterStep. If you do not like vi, chances are you will never learn to use AfterStep either. It is simply a matter of preferences. You know, in Belgium we say that if you do not like beer, it means you did not try enough of it. I think you should try more window managers, they are all different, you are likely to find one that suits you well. Good luck! Albert -- GPG fingerprint = EDF4 CEA9 4CBF 0FAF 02B3 5839 B871 C957 3953 115F An optimist thinks that this is the best possible world. A pessimist fears that this is true. From bob at bobcatos.com Thu Mar 26 16:12:28 2009 From: bob at bobcatos.com (Bob McClure Jr) Date: Thu Mar 26 16:12:47 2009 Subject: [As-users] =(((( In-Reply-To: <20090326205521.GA2025@tigr.net> References: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> <20090326205521.GA2025@tigr.net> Message-ID: <20090326211228.GA9625@bobcat.bobcatos.com> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 09:55:21PM +0100, Albert Dorofeev wrote: > On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:59:03AM -0400, Alan Grimes wrote: > > In attempting to use afterstep I've had some of the most frustrating > > experiences I've ever had attempting to use a GUI, it's almost half as > > awful as vi which is the benchmark as the world's least usable program. > > You are exactly right. AfterStep is the vi of window managers. > We all here like vi Umm, not quite. > and we like AfterStep. If you do not like > vi, chances are you will never learn to use AfterStep either. I disagree. vi makes me want to beat the monitor with the keyboard. I use and love Emacs. But you'll have to pry AfterStep from my cold, dead fingers unless it abandons virtual desktops. Seems only AS and FVWM provide that functionality, AFAIK. That said, I run IceWM on my antique laptop, a Pentium/MMX 233 (yeah, with the F00F bug), because I need something that loads and runs as fast as possible. There, I can stand to live without the virtual desktop. > It is simply a matter of preferences. You know, in Belgium we > say that if you do not like beer, it means you did not try > enough of it. I think you should try more window managers, > they are all different, you are likely to find one that suits > you well. Amen. > Good luck! > Albert > > -- > GPG fingerprint = EDF4 CEA9 4CBF 0FAF 02B3 5839 B871 C957 3953 115F > An optimist thinks that this is the best possible world. > A pessimist fears that this is true. Cheers, -- Bob McClure, Jr. Bobcat Open Systems, Inc. bob@bobcatos.com http://www.bobcatos.com "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks." Luke 6:43-45 (NIV) From sasha at aftercode.net Thu Mar 26 16:22:46 2009 From: sasha at aftercode.net (Sasha Vasko) Date: Thu Mar 26 16:24:18 2009 Subject: [As-users] =(((( - OFFTOPIC In-Reply-To: <20090326205521.GA2025@tigr.net> References: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> <20090326205521.GA2025@tigr.net> Message-ID: <49CBF226.2050209@aftercode.net> Albert Dorofeev wrote: > On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:59:03AM -0400, Alan Grimes wrote: > they are all different, you are likely to find one that suits > you well. > > Good luck! > Albert Good to know that you are still around! Sasha From albert at tigr.net Thu Mar 26 17:29:34 2009 From: albert at tigr.net (Albert Dorofeev) Date: Thu Mar 26 17:29:33 2009 Subject: [As-users] =(((( In-Reply-To: <20090326211228.GA9625@bobcat.bobcatos.com> References: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> <20090326205521.GA2025@tigr.net> <20090326211228.GA9625@bobcat.bobcatos.com> Message-ID: <20090326222933.GA4148@tigr.net> > Umm, not quite. > > > and we like AfterStep. If you do not like > > vi, chances are you will never learn to use AfterStep either. Bob, get a sense of humor, will ya? Albert -- GPG fingerprint = EDF4 CEA9 4CBF 0FAF 02B3 5839 B871 C957 3953 115F An optimist thinks that this is the best possible world. A pessimist fears that this is true. From albert at tigr.net Thu Mar 26 17:32:38 2009 From: albert at tigr.net (Albert Dorofeev) Date: Thu Mar 26 17:32:35 2009 Subject: [As-users] =(((( - OFFTOPIC In-Reply-To: <49CBF226.2050209@aftercode.net> References: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> <20090326205521.GA2025@tigr.net> <49CBF226.2050209@aftercode.net> Message-ID: <20090326223237.GB4148@tigr.net> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 03:22:46PM -0600, Sasha Vasko wrote: > Albert Dorofeev wrote: >> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 10:59:03AM -0400, Alan Grimes wrote: >> they are all different, you are likely to find one that suits >> you well. >> >> Good luck! >> Albert > > Good to know that you are still around! > > Sasha Good to know you are still around too and even remember me :) Albert -- GPG fingerprint = EDF4 CEA9 4CBF 0FAF 02B3 5839 B871 C957 3953 115F An optimist thinks that this is the best possible world. A pessimist fears that this is true. From bob at bobcatos.com Thu Mar 26 17:47:05 2009 From: bob at bobcatos.com (Bob McClure Jr) Date: Thu Mar 26 17:47:31 2009 Subject: [As-users] =(((( In-Reply-To: <20090326222933.GA4148@tigr.net> References: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> <20090326205521.GA2025@tigr.net> <20090326211228.GA9625@bobcat.bobcatos.com> <20090326222933.GA4148@tigr.net> Message-ID: <20090326224705.GA14526@bobcat.bobcatos.com> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:29:34PM +0100, Albert Dorofeev wrote: > > Umm, not quite. > > > > > and we like AfterStep. If you do not like > > > vi, chances are you will never learn to use AfterStep either. > > Bob, get a sense of humor, will ya? Hey, somebody had to bite. ;-) > Albert > > -- > GPG fingerprint = EDF4 CEA9 4CBF 0FAF 02B3 5839 B871 C957 3953 115F > An optimist thinks that this is the best possible world. > A pessimist fears that this is true. Cheers, -- Bob McClure, Jr. Bobcat Open Systems, Inc. bob@bobcatos.com http://www.bobcatos.com "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks." Luke 6:43-45 (NIV) From turnerjw784 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 26 22:45:50 2009 From: turnerjw784 at yahoo.com (Jim Turner) Date: Thu Mar 26 22:46:10 2009 Subject: [As-users] re: =((((( Message-ID: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Have you tried clicktofocus model?? AS's default is "focus follows mouse, in which case, a buried winClickToFocus 1dow may be hard to get up imho.? You can edit your "feel" file and try adding this line: ClickToFocus 1 Also, comment out any other "Focus" or "ClickToRaise" lines.? I use AS b/c it can be configured how you want it, if you are willing to edit the look and feel files (~/.afterstep/looks/* and ~/.afterstep/feels/* I have found 1 issue with window-focusing that I find annoying - sometimes when many windows are up, closing a window will seem to cause a random window to get the focus rather than the one that opened it or the one just underneith it.? Sorry about your difficulties w/AS and the "flamey" non-support you've gotten here.? Not all of us AS abUsers feel this way toward new users as we were all newbees at some point. Hope this helps! Jim -------------- next part -------------- HTML attachment scrubbed and removed From jkrebs at tconl.com Fri Mar 27 02:44:40 2009 From: jkrebs at tconl.com (jkrebs@tconl.com) Date: Fri Mar 27 02:45:22 2009 Subject: [As-users] =(((( In-Reply-To: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> References: <49CB9837.9030100@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <21714.153.29.176.60.1238139880.squirrel@mail.tconl.com> I always tell folks that when you complain, and you can't provide a possible solution to the problem, you become part of the problem. I am going to issue you a challenge: provide some strong, quantifiable feedback to help the developers improve their product. Please give constructive feedback to either this mailing list or on the IRC channel #afterstep. Some things can be fixed, others can't. I will tell you that if you roll up your sleeves and dig in, you will learn a good about window managers and AfterStep. My involvement with AfterStep (AS) resulted from the same scenario that you are describing; things weren't working right, and/or I didn't understand the WM. In reality, it was a combination of the two. Once I understood the intricacies and benefits of AS, I was hooked. AfterStep IS NOT Windoze. Far from it. If you are looking for an XP/Vista experience under Linux, AS is one of the poorest choices I can think of. If you are looking for one of the most highly configurable window managers in a *nix environment, AS is the way to go. I consider AS to be very fast, not in terms of CPU speed, but in terms of having things where I need them, when I need them. You can customize and tweak to your heart's content. Jeff > I'm sorry but I'm so outraged by how awful this software is I am > absolutely compelled to join this mailing list to explain why this is > one of the worst window managers I've ever attempted to use. > > I spent most of my life in a custom shell on Windows 3.11 (Dashboard > from Starfish Software). > > Then I moved more or less directly to FVWM on linux which I used for > years on end... Then its "bit-rot" became overwhelming so I switched to > KDE3, which was pretty good. > > KDE4.2 was utterly unusable so I went searching for a WM again. (KDE4 is > the worst downgrade in the history of open source!) > > I used Enlightenment for about a month. It was half-way decent but then > I noticed that it was eating half of my CPU power, which is outrageous!!! > > So I loaded afterstep. (I had a brief encounter with gnustep back around > 2003 which was generally positive.) > > In attempting to use afterstep I've had some of the most frustrating > experiences I've ever had attempting to use a GUI, it's almost half as > awful as vi which is the benchmark as the world's least usable program. > > It seems to follow completely arbitrary rules, some windows I can make > overlap, others I can't. The desktop manager is completely broken > because the window I want to move moves in a different direction than > the mouse. I have an instance of "Okular" that simply cannot be moved, > the system beeps when I try to move it. (My desktop has a CRT and a > flatpannel, dissimilar resolutions on a nvidia driver, it's a version > out of date because nvidia doesn't support my card anymore!!!). I have > TWM on this monitor because it is more or less usable, while afterstep, > on my other monitor, is not. > > Sometimes I'll have a deeply burried window but no matter how many times > I click on it, I cannot get it to raise to the top. > > When I try to pop a terminal which I do hundreds of times an hour, it > will flash for an instant and then disappear, I have to then go hunting > for it, which is insane!!! > > Because I can't find a usable window manager, I probably won't be able > to use linux for much longer. The last time I installed an OS on this > machine was in 2004... > > > -- > New president: Here we go again... > Chemistry.com: A total rip-off. > Powers are not rights. > > _______________________________________________ > As-users mailing list > As-users@afterstep.org > http://mail.afterstep.org/mailman/listinfo/as-users > From agrimes at speakeasy.net Fri Mar 27 13:37:40 2009 From: agrimes at speakeasy.net (Alan Grimes) Date: Fri Mar 27 14:38:33 2009 Subject: [As-users] YOU EVIL FUCKS!!! MY COLORS ARE BROKEN!! In-Reply-To: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49CD1CF4.20706@speakeasy.net> I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU EVIL FUCKS DID TO MY COMPUTER BUT NOW MY COLORS FOR KDE3 APPLICATIONS ARE LOCKED IN AN UTTERLY UNUSABLE STATE AND I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO FIX THEM!!!!! I'M NOW USING ONE OF THE OTHER WINDOW MANAGERS SUGGESTED BUT IT SEEMS THAT AFTERSTEP HAS PERMENANTLY FUCKED ONE OF MY __TENS OF THOUSANDS__ HIDDEN CONFIGURATION FILES THAT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX!!! YOU DICKS DESERVE TO DIE!!! -- New president: Here we go again... Chemistry.com: A total rip-off. Powers are not rights. From jkrebs at tconl.com Fri Mar 27 15:37:01 2009 From: jkrebs at tconl.com (jkrebs@tconl.com) Date: Fri Mar 27 15:37:20 2009 Subject: [As-users] YOU EVIL FUCKS!!! MY COLORS ARE BROKEN!! In-Reply-To: <49CD1CF4.20706@speakeasy.net> References: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49CD1CF4.20706@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <34650.153.29.176.60.1238186221.squirrel@mail.tconl.com> I'm done with this one. The bridge is not only burned, but the road has been torn up for ten miles on either side. Try a re-format and re-install. You may want to take a look at Windows Vista or XP. Best of luck. > I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU EVIL FUCKS DID TO MY COMPUTER BUT NOW MY COLORS > FOR KDE3 APPLICATIONS ARE LOCKED IN AN UTTERLY UNUSABLE STATE AND I HAVE > NO IDEA HOW TO FIX THEM!!!!! > > I'M NOW USING ONE OF THE OTHER WINDOW MANAGERS SUGGESTED BUT IT SEEMS > THAT AFTERSTEP HAS PERMENANTLY FUCKED ONE OF MY __TENS OF THOUSANDS__ > HIDDEN CONFIGURATION FILES THAT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX!!! YOU DICKS > DESERVE TO DIE!!! > > -- > New president: Here we go again... > Chemistry.com: A total rip-off. > Powers are not rights. > > _______________________________________________ > As-users mailing list > As-users@afterstep.org > http://mail.afterstep.org/mailman/listinfo/as-users > From as_ml at vaevictus.net Fri Mar 27 15:52:35 2009 From: as_ml at vaevictus.net (Nathan 'Vaevictus' Mahon) Date: Fri Mar 27 15:57:09 2009 Subject: [As-users] YOU EVIL FUCKS!!! MY COLORS ARE BROKEN!! In-Reply-To: <49CD1CF4.20706@speakeasy.net> References: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49CD1CF4.20706@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <49CD3C93.9030604@vaevictus.net> ROFLMAO HAND GL DD n8 Alan Grimes wrote: > I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU EVIL FUCKS DID TO MY COMPUTER BUT NOW MY COLORS > FOR KDE3 APPLICATIONS ARE LOCKED IN AN UTTERLY UNUSABLE STATE AND I HAVE > NO IDEA HOW TO FIX THEM!!!!! > > I'M NOW USING ONE OF THE OTHER WINDOW MANAGERS SUGGESTED BUT IT SEEMS > THAT AFTERSTEP HAS PERMENANTLY FUCKED ONE OF MY __TENS OF THOUSANDS__ > HIDDEN CONFIGURATION FILES THAT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX!!! YOU DICKS > DESERVE TO DIE!!! > > From ed-afterstep at s5h.net Fri Mar 27 16:07:50 2009 From: ed-afterstep at s5h.net (ed) Date: Fri Mar 27 16:08:12 2009 Subject: [As-users] YOU EVIL FUCKS!!! MY COLORS ARE BROKEN!! In-Reply-To: <49CD1CF4.20706@speakeasy.net> References: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49CD1CF4.20706@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <20090327210750.GA11777@s5h.net> Thanks I needed a laugh. You're not allowed in our club now. Learn how to sort it out. Try: rm -rf ~/.kde* That might sort it, I don't know myself for sure, I use evilwm. ttfn, you plonker. Work it out. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 02:37:40PM -0400, Alan Grimes wrote: > I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU EVIL FUCKS DID TO MY COMPUTER BUT NOW MY COLORS > FOR KDE3 APPLICATIONS ARE LOCKED IN AN UTTERLY UNUSABLE STATE AND I HAVE > NO IDEA HOW TO FIX THEM!!!!! > > I'M NOW USING ONE OF THE OTHER WINDOW MANAGERS SUGGESTED BUT IT SEEMS > THAT AFTERSTEP HAS PERMENANTLY FUCKED ONE OF MY __TENS OF THOUSANDS__ > HIDDEN CONFIGURATION FILES THAT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX!!! YOU DICKS > DESERVE TO DIE!!! > > -- > New president: Here we go again... > Chemistry.com: A total rip-off. > Powers are not rights. > > _______________________________________________ > As-users mailing list > As-users@afterstep.org > http://mail.afterstep.org/mailman/listinfo/as-users -- The DS3 to the DNS Server is bitching like Perrin because of a memory leak in the lyris server. Teleport is downloading warez & porn. :: http://www.s5h.net/ :: http://www.s5h.net/gpg.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mail.afterstep.org/pipermail/as-users/attachments/20090327/17eab616/attachment.pgp From as_ml at vaevictus.net Fri Mar 27 16:27:25 2009 From: as_ml at vaevictus.net (Nathan 'Vaevictus' Mahon) Date: Fri Mar 27 16:31:53 2009 Subject: [As-users] YOU EVIL FUCKS!!! MY COLORS ARE BROKEN!! In-Reply-To: <49CD1CF4.20706@speakeasy.net> References: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49CD1CF4.20706@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <49CD44BD.2050903@vaevictus.net> Looks like you were also trying to use an old version of AfterStep. Did you really expect help? n8 Alan Grimes wrote: > I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU EVIL FUCKS DID TO MY COMPUTER BUT NOW MY COLORS > FOR KDE3 APPLICATIONS ARE LOCKED IN AN UTTERLY UNUSABLE STATE AND I HAVE > NO IDEA HOW TO FIX THEM!!!!! > > I'M NOW USING ONE OF THE OTHER WINDOW MANAGERS SUGGESTED BUT IT SEEMS > THAT AFTERSTEP HAS PERMENANTLY FUCKED ONE OF MY __TENS OF THOUSANDS__ > HIDDEN CONFIGURATION FILES THAT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX!!! YOU DICKS > DESERVE TO DIE!!! > > From agrimes at speakeasy.net Fri Mar 27 15:31:21 2009 From: agrimes at speakeasy.net (Alan Grimes) Date: Fri Mar 27 16:32:14 2009 Subject: [As-users] panic driven by helplessness In-Reply-To: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49CD3799.2000000@speakeasy.net> Now that I've had a few hours to calm down after being faced with something I don't know how to fix I really must re-affirm a number of the things I had written in my panic. I mean, I don't know how to fix my KDE3 colors. It's a fairly deeply buried config in one of the more than 140 hidden directories in my home folde (I did delete my .qt directory...) But, someone in the afterstep project went through the trouble to find it and fuck it up for me... That is not an accident but deliberate and intense malice. You _NEVER_ affect the behavior of a user application. The user might configure an application to "use settings from X" but you __NEVER__ go in and make configuration changes to another application. So even after my initial rage has subsided, I'm still mad as hell about this!! I have many valuable configurations in my .kde folder, I cannot afford to delete it! =( I need to know exactly what was done to my system and how to reverse the dammage! =( I only have a few skelital parts of my KDE3 installation left, I don't know whether one of them is the look and feel chooser or what package it is in if I need to install it to undo the damage done by afterstep. =( I'm going to report afterstep to gentoo security as a malicious package. =\ -- New president: Here we go again... Chemistry.com: A total rip-off. Powers are not rights. From ed-afterstep at s5h.net Sat Mar 28 09:13:12 2009 From: ed-afterstep at s5h.net (ed) Date: Sat Mar 28 09:13:35 2009 Subject: [As-users] panic driven by helplessness In-Reply-To: <49CD3799.2000000@speakeasy.net> References: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49CD3799.2000000@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <20090328141312.GA17821@s5h.net> On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 04:31:21PM -0400, Alan Grimes wrote: > Now that I've had a few hours to calm down after being faced with > something I don't know how to fix I really must re-affirm a number of > the things I had written in my panic. Thats good. When you're in a state of mental incapacity its useful to remember RULE: 1) is this behaviour RATIONAL 2) is this USEFUL to me 3) is this LOGICAL 4) and finally, is there any EVIDENCE. Most counsellor's will advise doing this when you feel yourself slipping away. > I mean, I don't know how to fix my KDE3 colors. It's a fairly deeply > buried config in one of the more than 140 hidden directories in my home > folde (I did delete my .qt directory...) Have you thought perhaps that KDE is a separate entity to AfterStep? They do different jobs. > But, someone in the afterstep project went through the trouble to find > it and fuck it up for me... That is not an accident but deliberate and > intense malice. You _NEVER_ affect the behavior of a user application. > The user might configure an application to "use settings from X" but you > __NEVER__ go in and make configuration changes to another application. > So even after my initial rage has subsided, I'm still mad as hell about > this!! What evidence do you have to substantiate this claim? Have you tried stracing wmmaker to see what it's *really* doing. I bet you'll find that if you grep the system calls you won't find it open any .kde files. strace -o /var/tmp/as_out -s 8192 -f startx wmmaker > I have many valuable configurations in my .kde folder, I cannot afford > to delete it! =( I need to know exactly what was done to my system and > how to reverse the dammage! =( I only have a few skelital parts of my > KDE3 installation left, I don't know whether one of them is the look and > feel chooser or what package it is in if I need to install it to undo > the damage done by afterstep. =( What makes you think that your configuration is any more valuable that ours? What makes you think that the afterstep developers have sought you out personally and sabotaged your config? > I'm going to report afterstep to gentoo security as a malicious package. > =\ zomgwtfbbq! Please post the mail archive here, it'll be a riot. -- The dirt trail to the XF86 Server is sending all zeros because of Mordecai halting the cstrike server. The Script Kiddy is gasing up the marketing hype machine. :: http://www.s5h.net/ :: http://www.s5h.net/gpg.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mail.afterstep.org/pipermail/as-users/attachments/20090328/c9343d35/attachment.pgp From daniel.ramaley at drake.edu Mon Mar 30 08:56:09 2009 From: daniel.ramaley at drake.edu (Daniel A. Ramaley) Date: Mon Mar 30 08:56:42 2009 Subject: [As-users] panic driven by helplessness In-Reply-To: <49CD3799.2000000@speakeasy.net> References: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49CD3799.2000000@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <200903300856.09158.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> On 2009-03-27 at 15:31:21, Alan Grimes wrote: >Now that I've had a few hours to calm down after being faced with >something I don't know how to fix I really must re-affirm a number of >the things I had written in my panic. In the future, please take a few hours to calm down *before* sending a flame. >I mean, I don't know how to fix my KDE3 colors. It's a fairly deeply >buried config in one of the more than 140 hidden directories in my > home folde (I did delete my .qt directory...) $ rm -rf ~/.kde* >But, someone in the afterstep project went through the trouble to find >it and fuck it up for me... That is not an accident but deliberate and >intense malice. AfterStep was not responsible for messing up your KDE configuration. Flaming the list with false accusations was uncalled for. I recommend sending a brief apology to the list, and then unsubscribing. Clearly your sense of netiquette is not sufficiently advanced to handle a list such as as-users. Actually, on one of my machines i run both AfterStep and KDE on the same account. I use AfterStep if i log in locally, and KDE if i open a VNC connection. Both window managers work as i configured them, and neither causes havoc with the other. Often i have both a local and a VNC session going, so both window managers are running *at the same time* on the same computer, under the same account. All with no problems. The only deliberate and intense malice here has come from you. Please stop and think before mailing the list again. >I have many valuable configurations in my .kde folder, I cannot afford >to delete it! =( I need to know exactly what was done to my system > and how to reverse the dammage! Take this as a learning opportunity then. I don't know what you've done to break your system, but learn enough about how it works that you understand how to fix it. In the future maybe you won't find yourself so quick to rage if you have a deeper understanding of the system and so are more likely to understand exactly how you broke it and exactly how to repair the damage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA From as_ml at vaevictus.net Mon Mar 30 08:58:20 2009 From: as_ml at vaevictus.net (Nathan 'Vaevictus' Mahon) Date: Mon Mar 30 09:02:58 2009 Subject: [As-users] panic driven by helplessness In-Reply-To: <20090328141312.GA17821@s5h.net> References: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49CD3799.2000000@speakeasy.net> <20090328141312.GA17821@s5h.net> Message-ID: <49D0CFFC.90604@vaevictus.net> Just for the record, 2.2.4 did affect kde a bit. :) 2.2.4 and only 2.2.4. n8 ed wrote: > On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 04:31:21PM -0400, Alan Grimes wrote: > >> Now that I've had a few hours to calm down after being faced with >> something I don't know how to fix I really must re-affirm a number of >> the things I had written in my panic. >> > > Thats good. When you're in a state of mental incapacity its useful to > remember RULE: > > 1) is this behaviour RATIONAL > 2) is this USEFUL to me > 3) is this LOGICAL > 4) and finally, is there any EVIDENCE. > > Most counsellor's will advise doing this when you feel yourself slipping > away. > > >> I mean, I don't know how to fix my KDE3 colors. It's a fairly deeply >> buried config in one of the more than 140 hidden directories in my home >> folde (I did delete my .qt directory...) >> > > Have you thought perhaps that KDE is a separate entity to AfterStep? > They do different jobs. > > >> But, someone in the afterstep project went through the trouble to find >> it and fuck it up for me... That is not an accident but deliberate and >> intense malice. You _NEVER_ affect the behavior of a user application. >> The user might configure an application to "use settings from X" but you >> __NEVER__ go in and make configuration changes to another application. >> So even after my initial rage has subsided, I'm still mad as hell about >> this!! >> > > What evidence do you have to substantiate this claim? Have you tried > stracing wmmaker to see what it's *really* doing. I bet you'll find that > if you grep the system calls you won't find it open any .kde files. > > strace -o /var/tmp/as_out -s 8192 -f startx wmmaker > > >> I have many valuable configurations in my .kde folder, I cannot afford >> to delete it! =( I need to know exactly what was done to my system and >> how to reverse the dammage! =( I only have a few skelital parts of my >> KDE3 installation left, I don't know whether one of them is the look and >> feel chooser or what package it is in if I need to install it to undo >> the damage done by afterstep. =( >> > > What makes you think that your configuration is any more valuable that > ours? What makes you think that the afterstep developers have sought you > out personally and sabotaged your config? > > >> I'm going to report afterstep to gentoo security as a malicious package. >> =\ >> > > zomgwtfbbq! Please post the mail archive here, it'll be a riot. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > As-users mailing list > As-users@afterstep.org > http://mail.afterstep.org/mailman/listinfo/as-users > From drcurl at gmail.com Mon Mar 30 09:08:55 2009 From: drcurl at gmail.com (Carl Bolduc) Date: Mon Mar 30 09:09:14 2009 Subject: [As-users] panic driven by helplessness In-Reply-To: <200903300856.09158.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> References: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49CD3799.2000000@speakeasy.net> <200903300856.09158.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> Message-ID: <7224a92b0903300708k5a59d8b3p56c0ec61bcc75cbb@mail.gmail.com> Depending on the version he installed, the kde color scheme might have been modified to match the AS color scheme. At one point, both gtkrc and kde config were modified so that all applications would fit in AS. The solution should be as simple as changing the color scheme in KDE control panel. carl On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley wrote: > On 2009-03-27 at 15:31:21, Alan Grimes wrote: > >Now that I've had a few hours to calm down after being faced with > >something I don't know how to fix I really must re-affirm a number of > >the things I had written in my panic. > > In the future, please take a few hours to calm down *before* sending a > flame. > > >I mean, I don't know how to fix my KDE3 colors. It's a fairly deeply > >buried config in one of the more than 140 hidden directories in my > > home folde (I did delete my .qt directory...) > > $ rm -rf ~/.kde* > > >But, someone in the afterstep project went through the trouble to find > >it and fuck it up for me... That is not an accident but deliberate and > >intense malice. > > AfterStep was not responsible for messing up your KDE configuration. > Flaming the list with false accusations was uncalled for. I recommend > sending a brief apology to the list, and then unsubscribing. Clearly > your sense of netiquette is not sufficiently advanced to handle a list > such as as-users. > > Actually, on one of my machines i run both AfterStep and KDE on the same > account. I use AfterStep if i log in locally, and KDE if i open a VNC > connection. Both window managers work as i configured them, and neither > causes havoc with the other. Often i have both a local and a VNC > session going, so both window managers are running *at the same time* > on the same computer, under the same account. All with no problems. > > The only deliberate and intense malice here has come from you. Please > stop and think before mailing the list again. > > >I have many valuable configurations in my .kde folder, I cannot afford > >to delete it! =( I need to know exactly what was done to my system > > and how to reverse the dammage! > > Take this as a learning opportunity then. I don't know what you've done > to break your system, but learn enough about how it works that you > understand how to fix it. In the future maybe you won't find yourself > so quick to rage if you have a deeper understanding of the system and > so are more likely to understand exactly how you broke it and exactly > how to repair the damage. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University > Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave > +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA > _______________________________________________ > As-users mailing list > As-users@afterstep.org > http://mail.afterstep.org/mailman/listinfo/as-users > -------------- next part -------------- HTML attachment scrubbed and removed From sasha at aftercode.net Mon Mar 30 12:24:54 2009 From: sasha at aftercode.net (Sasha Vasko) Date: Mon Mar 30 12:26:42 2009 Subject: [As-users] panic driven by helplessness In-Reply-To: <7224a92b0903300708k5a59d8b3p56c0ec61bcc75cbb@mail.gmail.com> References: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49CD3799.2000000@speakeasy.net> <200903300856.09158.daniel.ramaley@drake.edu> <7224a92b0903300708k5a59d8b3p56c0ec61bcc75cbb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49D10066.1040904@aftercode.net> Carl Bolduc wrote: > Depending on the version he installed, the kde color scheme might have > been modified to match the AS color scheme. At one point, both gtkrc and > kde config were modified so that all applications would fit in AS. The > solution should be as simple as changing the color scheme in KDE control > panel. That is correct. Affected file is probably ~/.kde/share/config/kdeglobals look for colorScheme option. And yes, that was an experimental option in AS 2.2.4 and was disabled by default in subsequent releases based on user input. Relevant config option is DisableKDEGlobalsTheming in base. Although that thread gets me contemplating re-enabling it again, just to annoy the heck out of arrogant dorks. Regards Sasha Vasko > > carl > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Daniel A. Ramaley > > wrote: > > On 2009-03-27 at 15:31:21, Alan Grimes wrote: > >Now that I've had a few hours to calm down after being faced with > >something I don't know how to fix I really must re-affirm a number of > >the things I had written in my panic. > > In the future, please take a few hours to calm down *before* sending a > flame. > > >I mean, I don't know how to fix my KDE3 colors. It's a fairly deeply > >buried config in one of the more than 140 hidden directories in my > > home folde (I did delete my .qt directory...) > > $ rm -rf ~/.kde* > > >But, someone in the afterstep project went through the trouble to find > >it and fuck it up for me... That is not an accident but deliberate and > >intense malice. > > AfterStep was not responsible for messing up your KDE configuration. > Flaming the list with false accusations was uncalled for. I recommend > sending a brief apology to the list, and then unsubscribing. Clearly > your sense of netiquette is not sufficiently advanced to handle a list > such as as-users. > > Actually, on one of my machines i run both AfterStep and KDE on the same > account. I use AfterStep if i log in locally, and KDE if i open a VNC > connection. Both window managers work as i configured them, and neither > causes havoc with the other. Often i have both a local and a VNC > session going, so both window managers are running *at the same time* > on the same computer, under the same account. All with no problems. > > The only deliberate and intense malice here has come from you. Please > stop and think before mailing the list again. > > >I have many valuable configurations in my .kde folder, I cannot afford > >to delete it! =( I need to know exactly what was done to my system > > and how to reverse the dammage! > > Take this as a learning opportunity then. I don't know what you've done > to break your system, but learn enough about how it works that you > understand how to fix it. In the future maybe you won't find yourself > so quick to rage if you have a deeper understanding of the system and > so are more likely to understand exactly how you broke it and exactly > how to repair the damage. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Dan Ramaley Dial Center 118, Drake University > Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave > +1 515 271-4540 Des Moines IA 50311 USA > _______________________________________________ > As-users mailing list > As-users@afterstep.org > http://mail.afterstep.org/mailman/listinfo/as-users > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > As-users mailing list > As-users@afterstep.org > http://mail.afterstep.org/mailman/listinfo/as-users From albert at tigr.net Tue Mar 31 04:02:48 2009 From: albert at tigr.net (Albert Dorofeev) Date: Tue Mar 31 04:03:10 2009 Subject: [As-users] panic driven by helplessness In-Reply-To: <49CD3799.2000000@speakeasy.net> References: <86640.67084.qm@web37304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49CD3799.2000000@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <20090331090248.GA7565@tigr.net> > I'm going to report afterstep to gentoo security as a malicious package. > =\ Thanks, I also really needed a laugh today! Keep it coming, mate! You are a rare ray of sunshine! :D Tigrino -- GPG fingerprint = EDF4 CEA9 4CBF 0FAF 02B3 5839 B871 C957 3953 115F An optimist thinks that this is the best possible world. A pessimist fears that this is true.